#1 March 24, 2016 15:16:41

pje39
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Thermodynamic Solar Heat Pump

New Thermodynamic Heat pump on the market to Heat 80% of your Domestic Hot water.

Anyone interest taking part in a case study, please contact me on 0208 123 1473.

Attachments:
attachment Lovat b2c LMB 2016.pdf (1.6 MB)

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#2 April 2, 2016 07:18:51

dwilliams
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Thermodynamic Solar Heat Pump

Hi, have just committed to battery storage system so not on the market for this at present but will watch developments with interest. Is there any reason why it would not work with central heating too?

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#3 April 10, 2016 16:35:45

BackYardSolar
From: Surrey, on Gatwick flight path
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Thermodynamic Solar Heat Pump

dwilliams
Hi, have just committed to battery storage system so not on the market for this at present but will watch developments with interest.

Keep us informed on your battery storage system.

I have considered one myself, but unsure I could use it the way I wanted too.

I would only want to use mine early morning before solar PV was available. Then recharge with spare solar during the day ready for early evening as the solar dies. And then recharge overnight on Eco7 ready for early morning again.

Very interested to see how yours is set up and used and what capacity it has has and if it is sufficient and cost effective. Also could it be used in a power cut?



SolarEdge SE4000 inverter, 16 x Romag powerglaz 235W panels. South facing at 30 degree angle in Surrey just East of Gatwick and under the flight path.

ESS AC coupled system using a Victron Multiplus 24V/1600VA Inverter/Charger - 8.16kW Trojan 875 battery bank.

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#4 April 14, 2016 09:12:02

morrisok
From: Sussex
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Thermodynamic Solar Heat Pump

dwilliams
Hi, have just committed to battery storage system so not on the market for this at present but will watch developments with interest. Is there any reason why it would not work with central heating too?
Which battery system did you go with?



Kevin

URN 131, 3.92KWp 12x 327W E20 SunPower panels Sunnyboy 4000 inverter, facing ~south, no shading issues. Location: Sussex, http://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?userid=12216

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#5 April 15, 2016 18:33:51

dwilliams
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Thermodynamic Solar Heat Pump

Hi, just back from a trip away so a quick answer to recent posts. I am going for a SolaX X-Hybrid system http://www.solaxuk.co.uk/x-hybrid-battery-storage/ with 5Kwh Lithium (2 x 2.4).

In the event of a power cut the power does go off (per some regulation & it's not a UPS) but that gives you the opportunity to reduce the load to essential only before throwing a switch to energise the entire house again. The system is configure not to go below 20% so there is always some for a power cut. Once in power cut mode the system feeds back power to the PV system so it can continue to generate and charge.

I too am interested in recharging from Eco7, especially in the winter but this is not available on the system yet. The supplier said it was something to do with the way the system is configured to work right now and they are working on a solution as it is clearly a user requirement. I did see something on the web/documentation that said you can see the generation meter clicking up during the hours of darkness as the battery discharges and the issue with Eco7 is that you could buy at low rate but feed that back as if generating at 49p or whatever your FIT rate. To be honest I did not understand the explanation but no doubt things will become clearer in due course.

Hopefully the system will be installed by the end of April and I will have more to report. Have a look at this which gives a good idea of how the system works https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-gm_iKkFP4

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#6 April 19, 2016 08:03:09

bhommels
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Thermodynamic Solar Heat Pump

“the issue with Eco7 is that you could buy at low rate but feed that back as if generating at 49p or whatever your FIT rate.”
Sounds more than a bit illegal to me!

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#7 April 19, 2016 08:48:32

dwilliams
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Thermodynamic Solar Heat Pump

bhommels
“the issue with Eco7 is that you could buy at low rate but feed that back as if generating at 49p or whatever your FIT rate.”Sounds more than a bit illegal to me!
I guess that is why the particular system I am going for does NOT allow recharging other than from self generated PV.

During my research I recall having seen other systems where the option to recharge batteries for later use within the home is a specific selling point (I suppose they are engineered differently so as not to be able to feed back stored power to the grid).

Storing cheap energy for later self use is unlikely to be any more illegal than people do today with storage radiators or hot water. In fact it seems highly desirable for the infrastructure to flatten out the peaks of demand where possible.

If you have a look at these links it's clear that both OFGEM and Parliament appreciate this is a grey area at present and are being pushed by the rapidly developing technology like storage.

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/ofgem-publications/92669/flexibilityprojectopenletterjan2015.pdf

http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/POST-PN-492






Edited dwilliams (April 19, 2016 08:49:15)

Attachments:
attachment flexibilityprojectopenletterjan2015.pdf (118.7 KB)

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#8 April 20, 2016 07:23:22

bhommels
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Thermodynamic Solar Heat Pump

I was more concerned about the “as if generating” bit of the sentence, not the recharging/discharging per se - sorry for not being entirely clear.

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#9 May 2, 2016 16:27:48

pje39
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Thermodynamic Solar Heat Pump

Hi Guys, I have some interest battery storage but couldn't work out payback calculation to make it viable.

I understand there are a couple of products on the market . One being the Telsa Home Energy pack at a estimated cost of £2400, Powervault (£2800) and others quoted with batteries at 6K..

I understand Lead crystal batteries have a a life of about 15 years, so these need to be considered for replacement costs. However, will the inverter last that long what ever the make?

So if I use my solar during the day to do washing/drying etc.. How many power am I actually using at night. Very different between Summer and Winter, but estimate 25% at the most.. So thats £200 of my £800 bill, that if my solar has enough to charge the batteries in the 1st place, as I also heat my water using the Immersun.

So if I went for the 6K package it would take 30 years to recover the costs, The other options work out at a 15 year payback, but I do question whether I will get a 25% saving..

Using the ECO 7 may be the answer, which I believe the Powervault will be configured, with so savings will be made here.

Can anyone help clarify teh actual ssavings and payback period?
See attached document
Pete

Attachments:
attachment 88166-BRE_Solar-Consumer-Guide-A4-12pp-JAN16.pdf (2.8 MB)

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#10 May 3, 2016 18:36:33

BackYardSolar
From: Surrey, on Gatwick flight path
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Thermodynamic Solar Heat Pump

Hi pje39

I read the guide and it is interesting and unbiased. The problem you face is that you have to factor in your generation, your consumption and your tariff's.

If you are using your Immersun to heat water then you will know that there is no surplus solar in the winter to charge any batteries, as I suspect your Immersun struggles to heat the water.

My 3.67kW PV system generates 3.6MWh a year and I divert 1.2MWh of surplus into hot water and night storage. About 1.2MWh I use and the last 1.2MWh goes back to the grid, but only in the summer. So I could store 1.2MWh into batteries but only in the summer.

My daily tariff (06:00 - 18:00) is 17p a kWh, so I would want to use any stored battery power then or in the evening 18:00 - 24:00 when I pay 12p a kWh. However, from midnight until 06:00 I only pay 6p a kWh. So storing when it is worth 17p and using it when it is only 6p would be nuts. This things you need to consider.

I suspect you would need at least 12kWh of battery storage to make it work and switch off the Immersun. I doubt it would last ten years without being replaced. The batteries are the weak link along with the inverter which uses electrolytic capacitors, that have a ten year life.

I don't believe the technology is there yet to make it viable. If there was a grant from the government like in Germany then maybe it would be cost effective but not at the moment.

Did you also notice that most of the systems advertised have 5kW of panels. It is never going to work with 4kW or less, using a Immersun.

Maybe not the answer you wanted, but some points to consider.



SolarEdge SE4000 inverter, 16 x Romag powerglaz 235W panels. South facing at 30 degree angle in Surrey just East of Gatwick and under the flight path.

ESS AC coupled system using a Victron Multiplus 24V/1600VA Inverter/Charger - 8.16kW Trojan 875 battery bank.

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